[anditz]

Hi guys,

Has anyone driven all 3 of these cars?

I just wanted to know how they stack up against each other with regards to handling and acceleration.

Cheers

[phunkdust]

SP23 has a fair extra punch over the SP20

MPS is not even in the same ballpark, it's a screamer.

Day-to-day the SP23 is plenty perky as a daily driver. You can't really wind up the MPS on the streets.

power to weight...

SP20 - 80 kw/t
SP23 - 93 kw/t
MPS - 135 kw/t

This post has been edited by phunkdust: 28 July 2010 - 01:25 PM

[anditz]

hmm what about handling? i assumed mps would be far ahead of these two in all areas just wanted to know by how much...

is the SP23 that much better than the SP20 in every circumstance to be uncomparable?

[phunkdust]

They are all very planted, the Mazda3 has a wider stance and a bit more solid in the corners. Very nimble but IMHO the electric power steering leaves you feeling disconnected from the car. The SP20 retains that feeling of 'cogs turning' that you get with similar hatches of the period eg Integra, Pulsar SSS

[anditz]

phunkdust, on 28 July 2010 - 02:21 PM, said:

They are all very planted, the Mazda3 has a wider stance and a bit more solid in the corners. Very nimble but IMHO the electric power steering leaves you feeling disconnected from the car. The SP20 retains that feeling of 'cogs turning' that you get with similar hatches of the period eg Integra, Pulsar SSS

i'm not too sure what the feeling of electric powersteering is. i've driven a late model merc though, assuming it is the same, i dont like it either, it was like playing playstation through the corners.

is it just me or is the sp20's turning circle not the greatest?

[Dr. Teeth]

I know that the MPS turning circle isn't the best, but could be a LOT worse (driven a Magna at all?).

As for handling, the MPS is really really tough on bumps and you feel a lot of the road that some other cars wouldn't even notice. Handling is pretty tight too in the MPS, but the added front end weight does provide some understeer issues if pushing it.

SP23 is a real bundle of joy though through everyday traffic. Spritely from the get go, handles well, just doesn't have that turbo punch but comes in manual and auto versions.

The steering in the 3 is a little artificial but I haven't had an issue with it. Have driven older cars without electronic assistance and the steering starts to get a little sloppy over time. Either way, it's better than having a car without power steering that feels like you're trying to lift the car and move it yourself.

[phunkdust]

Turning circle on the SP20 isn't terrible, I can pop it around on suburban streets easy, it's more tight carparks you need to take two goes or go in reverse.

But thats most front wheel drive cars.

[anditz]

ok here comes a really random one and its slightly off topic.

2002 sp20 vs 2004 Civic GLi.

i know they are completely dif but compare them as best you can.

[phunkdust]

I'm fuzzy on Hondas but I'd guess a non VTi or Type R would have it's arse handed to it.

[rodhog]

well if you want a opinion of a person who thinks all 3 are crap - (sorry but neither tickled me )

A SP20 to me is just a slighlty smaller 626. it's the same running gear. it's BJ astina with 626 running gear slighlty hi-comp so you have to run hi oct fuel - yet for no added performance. 1.8L BJ astina at the time was better value and only down a tiny bit on performance. handling is typical mazda and better thne it's Sr2 sister. Yet I have found it has or had the best ride over it's rivals at the time. stock it's fine car yet IMO it was never worth the extra of body kit and engine when new. 2nd hand it's fine but it add's cost to insurance premiums and a bigger engine higher running cost due to hi grade fuel for no reason. (yes I only run 98RON but if it was a daily why would I ? )


Sp23 - IMO it's a step back in time to the original AStina SP of 89-94. BG model. Great engine in overall good package. To me it almost mirros the car. Instead of a DOCH 1.8L it's 2.3LDOHC and yteah it has another 300cc. unlike the BG with it's SOHC V DOHC. But it's still the same difference. It's just that added punch - that shows the cars brilliant handling capabilities and ontop it's the large brake's fitted that allow you to maximise it.
True - it's FAT. True New it's waste over money over a Mazda 6 in terms of value. But lets face fact Mazda 6 is for the Older - slower and more family or other requirments driver. a Mazda 3 as much as you can fit crap into it. I have used a maxx sport for transporting large items. I would preffer a Mazda 6 wagon. But the Mazda 3 and SP23 variants are more then enough for majority of owner. the hatch is impressive in terms of how many box'es of DVD's a person can fit in the back with seats NOT FOLDED down.

To me it's the PICK OF THE BUNCH and 2nd hand by especially in 6speed manual or 5 speed auto form.


MPS 3 to me is another car going back to the late 80's it reminds me of my own MX-6 turbo. A car with as they state too much torque for the chassis - A car demanding a driver to take the helm. IMO - it's BS. all MPS's are too easy to drive. Untill you unleash all boost at all gears at all steering angles. Will a true beast be shown.
They claimed the 626-mx6 turbo/TX5 turbo was car most likley to take a life. They have - massive history or front end accidents ? Yet They always claimed You can never have enough power.

Back then it was up against the Honda prelude accord . Where the mazda's had everything on it interms of luxury space and comfort. Today the Mazda MPS3 - is a bit behind. even 2nd hand, you can find other cars that are more driveable quicker and easier to live with. But if that was the case No one would ever of gone to moon if it was too hard. Break the sound barrier in X-15 5times over. Stare when you see a bit of frontal nudity it's only natural to challenge one's abilities. The only problem is the other issues associated with those challenges.

For me it's too much of a Boring shape - it's got great motor but why didn't they drop it into the Rx-8 -or make a whole new body. Sp23 was enough for hot hatch. Hot hatch's are for those Males who are whipped or need friends to show off in front of. Yet be a hatch and say I still got a pair but I was not a big enoguh PIG of a MALE to say I'm going to find another person so I can have NO back seat - a roll cage and not care for any one but me Who needs rear doors for access.
Of course they do make this car it's called a 911 GT3 RS.


as for that model civic V Sp20. It's not clear cut the Sp20 is quicker over all and handles better but the civic's good points would crush that model Astina - yet they don't compare with a Mazda 3.
THe civic is made for a totally different market and I think a fine car new maybe 5 year old okay buy but. You would be better with a corolla.

In fact I'd add a corolla sportivo to it and then I'd say it's the car I'd buy for a daily. Mainly because I got enough weekend car to fix already.

if I wanted fun - and reliability you can't go past that corolla - yeah the rest of the range IMO is dead and shit but that motor and 6 speed is excellent. True in the celica it's home and hosed better but the Rolla is great compromise for a hatch.

[phunkdust]

Then again there is comparing tech specs and there is living with the thing.

Looked at the Corolla, one of the slightly older ones with the 100kW plant (before emissions required them to detune it) - lovely car undoubtedly perfectly reliable and had plenty of get up and go.. but it lacked character, it lacked zing, and I didn't like the driving position and the high dash.

Maz3 was too expensive for me at the time. I've driven an SP23 extensively. I do like it. It's lovely to drive and it feels unbelievably stiff. I like the tiptronic auto, I like the overall styling and that it's a little bigger and a little more comfortable. But that's that thing - it is bigger. My SP20 feels more nimble and has more of that Mazda zoom-zoom character I reckon. If someone gave me an SP23 I'd certainly drive it, and I'd get rid of the SP20.

Looked at the SSS, again plenty of grunt but felt cheap overall (as do most Nissans)

The SP20 may be expensive to run, and the FS-DE might be a crap design, but the car itself handles beautifully, I like the driving position, the low dash, it's very comfortable, there aren't that many of them around so "it's a bit different" etc. If you want something reliable and cheap to run you don't look at hot hatches.

If I had my time over I'd have probably got something cheaper (BA Hatch maybe) - depreciation is a bitch. I've had it for close to 3 years now but I still don't get tired of the kick in the back and the intake growl as it spins up over 4000RPM.

This post has been edited by phunkdust: 29 July 2010 - 12:39 AM

[Dr. Teeth]

If the Corolla wasn't such a bland looking car I'd have seriously considered a purchase before I bought my MPS... but then that turbo kick as you hit boost is so much fun.. and once again, it's "different" when you get on the road. I see a few MPS's around, but not all too many...

If you want a hatch, looking at the realm of SP20/23, Civic etc, just go out and test-drive a handful of each. You will make a decent conclusion from that and will find what works best for you...

[anditz]

I've already got the sp20

The reason for this post was because I recently bought this car, my brother bought the civic and my best mate has the sp23 (4spd auto). i just wanted a comparison.

when you say the sp20 is unreliable what do you mean? what is its achillies heel?

[phunkdust]

Not sure who said unreliable...

Coilpacks are a weak point. I'm also getting the occasional grumbly idle which I've tracked down to either the idle solenoid or the EGR valve. Both are a bitch to remove.

It has the same vulnerabilities that most Mazdas have, eg soft bushings and engine mounts that are wrecked by 100,000km

Haven't heard of anyone blowing an ECU or any of those ones that'll stop your car dead like I see a lot of korean and euro cars on the side of the road.

I've driven mine through water and got some in the engine, it came back to life!

[Dr. Teeth]

I think if you look after the machine, it'll last a long time. The engines are pretty strong and will age, but still keep on ticking over...

[anditz]

Yeh thanks guys, i dont really drive mine hard (shift at 2.5 to 3k), i was just after a zippy, reliable and good looking car that was good in the corners (i do mostly city driving)

i do keep tabs on most things and do service my cars regularly. with regard to the PULP issue i've heard many people run them on ULP and give it the occasional squirt of PULP just to keep the injectors clean, does anyone advise against this?

[Dr. Teeth]

I don't see a problem with that... what does the recommended RON rating say in the manual, or the fuel flap? I'd probably alternate between fuel tanks... one tank standard, one tank premium, just to be on the safe side, otherwise, stick a bottle of injector cleaner in if you really feel worried. Just make sure it's a premium brand, not some generic brand of cleaner.

[anditz]

Dr. Teeth, on 29 July 2010 - 11:14 AM, said:

I don't see a problem with that... what does the recommended RON rating say in the manual, or the fuel flap? I'd probably alternate between fuel tanks... one tank standard, one tank premium, just to be on the safe side, otherwise, stick a bottle of injector cleaner in if you really feel worried. Just make sure it's a premium brand, not some generic brand of cleaner.

it says to use premium doesn't specify between 95 and 98

but yeh i think you guys have wrapped up this thread nicely. i feel quite welcomed to this ozmazda forum and hope to be around for a long time

[phunkdust]

I've run mine on 91 and it will ping under load. I run it on 95 and it's fine. I'm pretty sure the green sticker on the fuel door says 95RON minimum.

The problem I can see with switching between 91 and 95/98 on a tank by tank basis is how long the ECU takes to relearn timing advance. (I don't know the answer to that question)

[ardinho]

when i had my sp20, i always filled PULP I didnt mind paying a lil extra for the extra mileage u get from using PULP